Curse

Spaced Invader · Jan 08, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Given that 3-5 years is the typical producuction time for a serious MMO (and assuming that GW2 has been in development since the release of EotN, which is *less* than 1 1/2 years) I don't expect any screenshots, video footage, or whatsoever - yet.
Hell, when I first heard about SWG in 2000 it took years until I saw first screenshots. And I don't expect any screenshots of that WH40K MMO anytime soon either.

GW2 *had* to be announced, so people would buy EotN and remain in standby-mode without rioting while no updates or further expansions are going on.
But you have to keep in mind that when announced, GW2 was still a CONCEPT. It existed in the devs' heads. A pipe dream. A vision.
Nothing more. It truly didn't exist at all when announced (about 17 months ago). Not a secret at all.

I don't expect screenshots or video footage before 2010.
I don't expect a Beta before 2011.
I don't expect GW2 to be released before 2012. Even 2013 sounds realistic to me, which would make for a game that has been in development for a bit more than 5 years.
Totally normal in the MMO market. Especially if you consider that A.Net has been founded by some Blizzard-guys. People who are known to take the time needed to finish a polished product.
(GW1 was actually an extremely well thought-out, finished, and polished product, Alpha/Beta tested for over 2 years when released in 2005.)

That said, that doesn't mean I would rule out the *possibility* of GW2 being vaporware which will never actually happen.
Just like an agnostic I don't really believe that, but I consider it to be possible.

Still, I reckon most of those people crying out VAPORWARE to be trolling for the sake of provoking A.Net and irritating the community for the sake of getting ANY new info bits on GW2.

Fril Estelin · Jan 09, 2009, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Talking of tight lips, Daniel Dociu resists the interview pressure (I only show quotes below) to reveal anything about GW2 (which seems to indicate that work is progressing :P )

http://www.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=16495

Quote:

Like most of you, we've been waiting patiently for information about ArenaNet's (mostly) announced Guild Wars 2 project. Unfortunately, despite all of our efforts, we've still been unable to get anything definitive. Having said that,... During the interview we talked about ... of course, my failed attempt to get information about Guild Wars 2. ...

...Tamat : So is it safe to say that you're going for the same kind of thing with newer projects that you're working on? As you said, a lot of the games go for photo realism where the consumer’s hardware is barely able to run the game smoothly. Would you say that you're going to be pursuing something that continues with the art focus that you had in the original Guild Wars?

Daniel : *laughs * Now that was very clever! Of course we're sticking to our guns and we'll be continuing the same quality and artistic integrity that we did with the first game and trying to build upon that to hopefully bring it to the next level. I don't think we're giving away much of a secret here by stating our ambition to deliver visually powerful and high quality games.

Tamat : Now in that same vein, let's talk about newer projects that you're working on. Is there anything that hasn't been completely confirmed that you can maybe give us a hint about?

Daniel : *laughs * We don't know what you're talking about!

Tamat : Alright! I guess I’ll just have to live with that. However, it’s been stated publically that the polygon counts and texture allowances have been increased for the next Guild Wars project. Can you talk about that at all?

Daniel : I have a strong opinion on this topic so without confirming or denying anything, ...

Also interesting to see that Daniel's son is at Anet too

.

Sirius-NZ · Jan 09, 2009, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

You are right. This means DNF is better developed.

I'm not sure how you can adamantly believe that, assuming you're aware of the development history of DNF. Because of the sheer number of false starts they've already had, the game is as good as having only been in development for 4-5 years at most.

Now GW2 could have switched engines without ArenaNet saying anything as well, but without any evidence for such an occurrence (the delay doesn't count; it's not long enough yet) it's hard to believe something like that happened.

On a more general topic, people's idea of "evidence" does tend to vary a little bit, but there is at least something indicating GW2 is in progress. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that it doesn't exist in any form, at least any more. Then we have to deal with the following:

Several people, including Regina and reportedly someone from NCSoft, were actually lying or severely mistaken (severely enough that they'd have to be on some pretty interesting drugs) when they said they'd seen GW2
ArenaNet has been employing 100+ people, including a pretty decent-sized art department, who have been doing nothing for the past two years, are cleverly covering it up, and either NCSoft somehow isn't aware of the fact or they don't care that they're spending presumably considerable sums of money for this
Of those people employed by ArenaNet, few enough still work on Guild Wars that it may arguably be hurting the game, maybe even losing a few sales, and this fact apparently doesn't worry them enough to do something about it, like maybe create a new expansion (with the people who would, remember, otherwise be doing nothing)
There is either some kind of business reason for the above, or ArenaNet/NCSoft, unlike pretty much every other business out there, are not actually trying to make money

Starts to get a little far-fetched to me...

shoyon456 · Jan 09, 2009, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

...*snip*...

I'm not going to say that GW2 is vaporware, and I truly believe that most people don't believe that either.

However, you have to acknowledge anet's eerie silence on this topic and the game for almost two years, and this is why:

1) Anet is not under any pressure from NCSoft to keep quiet on GW2 so it does not affect Aion's release. While this could still be a conscious move by Anet, it is exactly that; it is their choice to remain silent.

(See this statement by Regina: http://www.killtenrats.com/2008/12/2...mbs-follow-up/)

2) Basic questions have not been answered such as a level cap, see the other thread here in riverside for that.

3) You can cite protection of their game for the reasons of not releasing info, but frankly I believe many ppl would just be happy for CONCEPT ART, which is done before anything...usually indicating some work is being done to make the concept a reality. There is no concept art for gw2, if you claim that there is, its EOTN.

4) Unless you get to look at Anet's billing records and hours logs, you have no idea what's going on in their staff, what the size of it is, and what they're doing if anything.

5) Inconsistencies in interviews. Some people from anet/ncsoft that have been interviewed either avoid GW2 discussion altogether (most of them), say it looks very good/well in development, or say it's still in its infancy, alluding to "future" products.

The only reason a vaporware argument is becoming popular is because anet has not said anything definitive or specific about gw since it was announced. Yes they've given interviews, yes they have a Q&A list on the site, but tell me if any of those really say anything about the game itself? No, they don't and people are wising up to it. Gw is old for many ppl who have been playing since the beginning. I can't help but notice that those who say "gw2 is comming, be patient" tend to have started playing much later than those who have a more pessimistic view (not saying this is always the case).

ne33us · Jan 09, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

My very first and strongest thought is that Guild Wars 2 will be released when it will be ready, viable, complete, and not the usual "put a mess on the market and we will patch upon it while the players who trusted us before will go on playing it". So, surprise me in an awesome way Anet !!!!

My second thought comes in the form of a dilemma, so, will they be able to come up with a second golden egg like Guild Wars or are they pushing that goose too much (vaporware).

As for my last thought I will write it down as a request to the community members that are located/live close to Anet's Office's/Studios or whatever, so, please people do some low tech trash research. I bet you will find more than you can expect (icky stuff) in their offices's trash

Abedeus · Jan 09, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

If they had anything to show, they would.

More screenshots = more news about the game.

More news = more potential customers.

By keeping it quiet for over a year they are shooting themselves in the feet.

Quote:

I'm not sure how you can adamantly believe that, assuming you're aware of the development history of DNF. Because of the sheer number of false starts they've already had, the game is as good as having only been in development for 4-5 years at most.

Even then DNF is more advanced than GW2. Sure, they have "changed the engine" several times. But at least they had SOME screenshots. Some informations about the game.

What is the difference between DNF and GW developers? DNF people had other titles, cash from them and experience.

GW had a good idea, but after GW:P it was downhill from there. While many people have their hopes up because of GW2, it's less and less likely that A.Net will wow us with some kind of surprise teaser.

Gigashadow · Jan 10, 2009, 08:10 AM // 08:10

No, they wouldn't show screenshots or release a ton of data, when they game isn't being released until the end of 2009, that would be completely stupid. Why tip your hand to competitors, and divulge things about your game, just to keep a few rabid fanboys from QQing on forums. Best to be silent and surprise everyone with something that is great when it makes its first impression.

re: person talking about dumpster diving. Yuck, although funnily enough ArenaNet is actually walking distance from my house.

shoyon456 · Jan 10, 2009, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

No, they wouldn't show screenshots or release a ton of data, when they game isn't being released until the end of 2009, that would be completely stupid. Why tip your hand to competitors, and divulge things about your game, just to keep a few rabid fanboys from QQing on forums. Best to be silent and surprise everyone with something that is great when it makes its first impression.

SS or it never happened. There is no allusion to a release date for GW2, in fact those outside of anet have nothing but their word that it is even in production.

Being silent is not the best option if they want publicity, which they will need because of that same stiff competition. While they should not want to overhype gw2, they should want to create a fair amount at the right time. An earlier poster mentioned (if I remember correctly) about a year before release is about when a company should start releasing bits of info about their game and keep the flow somewhat constant.

If everything comes out right before gw2 release, whenever it may be, people will have already hooked onto D3, SC2, and possibly other games. Gamers like to know what's headed their way, and often initial sales are built upon anticipation for a game. That community that is anticipating gw2 despite a total lack of reason to, is very small.

GoodApollo1234 · Jan 25, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

My bet is some new information (nothing major) in April coinciding with the birthday and the original release of the information about EotN and GW2. Arenanet seems to like anniversaries like that

. If not, then sometime around mid July.

I also bet we'll start getting heavily inundated with new information at and after PAX, the kind of stuff we really want to see; screenshots, trailers, the works. Beta starting in October, then the full release of GW2 in April of 2010.

I'd buy that. Perhaps it's just my severe case of optimism, but this sounds sort of realistic to me. I am a tad skeptical though that they'll have it ready for release by April 2010. It'd definitely be awesome to release it on GW1's fifth birthday, but I'll be surprised if they make that date, what with the world.com lawsuit getting in the way. April 2011 is much more realistic, given your average MMO's 3-5 year development time.

But still, I'm betting (which really means hoping) that they'll have at least SOMETHING to say in April of this year, whether it's "hey, look at these screenshots," or "you all got Punk'd, there's no GW2 (cue character model of Ashton dancing in every town and outpost)," they'll probably throw us a bone.

Avectius · Jan 25, 2009, 10:04 PM // 22:04

They Already Have:

-Will Have No Instances Just like GW
-Set to be runned on Mid-Range Machines
-Bigger Improvement Of Visuals ( It has been claimed by Anet that the visuals will look beautiful )
-No Monthly Fees ( As Expected )
-New Playable Races
-Much More greater content ( From Skills, and Regions to explore, to massive amount of different armors, weapons etc. )
-New Content Added to the game Regularly

And The Most Important one.... A KICK ASS GAME!

Lishy · Jan 25, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

What GW2? GW2 doesn't exist?
You were just having a dream..

Chthon · Jan 25, 2009, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I thought that Regina made their strategy quite clear in that other ridiculous "oh noes GW2 is vaporware" thread. They're not going to release anything until they can do it for a big splash that's going to generate maximum hype. I'd guess the very first info we're going to hear about GW2 is going to sound something like: "Here's a beta, and here's some of the stuff in it."

Scythe O F Glory · Jan 26, 2009, 02:03 AM // 02:03

NEVAH
12chars

Sir Skullcrasher · Jan 26, 2009, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avectius

They Already Have:

-Will Have No Instances Just like GW
-Set to be runned on Mid-Range Machines
-Bigger Improvement Of Visuals ( It has been claimed by Anet that the visuals will look beautiful )
-No Monthly Fees ( As Expected )
-New Playable Races
-Much More greater content ( From Skills, and Regions to explore, to massive amount of different armors, weapons etc. )
-New Content Added to the game Regularly

And The Most Important one.... A KICK ASS GAME!

I need sources or else what you said isn't true!

M'Aiq The Liar · Jan 26, 2009, 05:19 AM // 05:19

If you people actually look at what they've revealed so far, and their musings on the title, particularly in PC Gamer Magazine, you'd realize that what they're aiming for is too ambitious for a 1 1/2 to 2 year development. And really... how often are games done ahead of schedule?

Konig Des Todes · Jan 26, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

What I expect, is the big splash to occur mid to late '09, alongside the alpha.

Beta in mid/late '10.

And the game itself in mid/late '11.

Originally, I expected a year sooner, but we all know how that turned out.

fenix · Jan 26, 2009, 07:59 AM // 07:59

As nice as the idea is to withhold all their information for a big announcement later that will bring in millions of players, it won't happen.

They've waited so long since the release that a lot of players don't care any more. If they don't release something substantial soon, they'll end up with a failure of a game.

Abedeus · Jan 26, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avectius

They Already Have:

-Will Have No Instances Just like GW We already knew that.
-Set to be runned on Mid-Range Machines Everyone says that. Fury said it, Warhammer too.
-Bigger Improvement Of Visuals ( It has been claimed by Anet that the visuals will look beautiful ) Would be funny if they didn't say it was better. Or if the same, why call it GW2 instead of another chapter?
-No Monthly Fees ( As Expected ) More of the same poor community manager and updates once per month after merely 3 years, while there used to be an update every Thursday.
-New Playable Races Every MMO offers that already.
-Much More greater content ( From Skills, and Regions to explore, to massive amount of different armors, weapons etc. ) Sequels usually have everything more. About the "greater content", see second point again.
-New Content Added to the game Regularly Pretty standard in MMOs these days. Although while they get that content in a fee, we have to buy a new game, and this will be here again.

And The Most Important one.... A KICK ASS GAME! Starting Every Letter With Big Letter Makes You Look Inteligent [/sarcasm]

Fixed a looooot.

Master Ketsu · Jan 26, 2009, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Anet will release the info when Season 2 of Suzumiya Haruhi starts to air.

Because then Anet staff will have something to fap to, which will in turn make them happier and want to tell us more.

Gun Pierson · Jan 26, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

When will Anet release GW2 info?
When they're ready.

When will the game come out?
When it's ready and when the time is right.

Blizzard's Wrath of the lich king was nicely planned to 'compete' with warhammer online and to finish off the other mmo flops we saw in 2008 (AoC, Hellgate Londen, Tabula Rasa, Pirates.)

Aion is coming up this year. I don't think we will see anything about gw2 before and during that launch. The graphics style looks somewhat like gw.

GW2 will sell. They don't have to lure players in the meantime. GW has build up a reputation in the gaming world.